By (Squeeman) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 01:28 am:

Yup, and now I felt like giving everyone's favorite crappy tribe a leg up. They've got what, plenty of legs? So it won't make a difference, really.

But here's the premise: imagine a hypothetical set (not Fallen Empires) where homarids are the main blue guys. All of the already-existing homarid/viscerid/camarid cards are printed in this set. If you want, you can include Viscerid Armor and Floodwater Dam. It's optional.

Imagine, from a designer/developer's standpoint, that this is the first printing of those cards, and that they are only one third of the total homarid tribe cards in the set. Either you're making the base set, or an expansion, but essentially you want 18-25 homarid cards (including the already existing ones) for the set. Including, if you want, enchantments/artifacts/whatever that are either tribal-specific or would have great synergy with the existing homarids. Doesn't just have to be creatures.

Keeping them thematically appropriate is extra points. One of the themes of the homarids, was, if I read it correctly, that they sort of attack/leave with the tides or like the tides or something (thus the similarity between Homarid and Tidal Influence, and the various cards in the set to do with tides). Using/remaking Tidal Influence are both on the table.

By Ghaleon (Xanatos_Yfel) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 11:01 am:

I don't understand what you want us to do

By (Squeeman) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 11:24 am:

Design cards. As opposed to taking LSD and ecstasy until homarids are awesome in your head.

By (Squeeman) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 02:01 pm:

C'mon, it's easy!

I mean, the most obvious example would probably be an enchantment that reads something like "Creatures gain +1/+1 for each tide counter on them" or perhaps some variant on Fungal Bloom.

By Ye Olde Kafir (Kafir) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 02:05 pm:

You really need a Lord!
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Homarid Lord, {1}{U}{U}
Creature — Homarid, 2/2

Homarid Lord enters the battlefield with a tide counter on it.
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a tide counter on Homarid Lord.
As long as there is exactly one tide counter on Homarid Lord, all Homarids get -1/-1.
As long as there are exactly three tide counters on Homarid Lord, all Homarids get +1/+1.
Whenever there are four tide counters on Homarid Lord, remove all tide counters from it.
---------------------------------------
It's basicly the same design as the good old Homarid, but now it applies to all your Homarids. It'll be tricky because you'll have to get the phase of the tide right, but that'll be the fun part. You'll also have to watch out they don't get -2/-2 and die. :-)

By Ghaleon (Xanatos_Yfel) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 03:13 pm:

Tidecaster 3UU
Creature-Homarid Wizard
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player puts a tide counter on a permanent he or she controls.
At the end of each player's turn, for each permanent with a tide counter he or she controls , that player must pay U or sacrifice that permanent.
2/3

By Ye Olde Kafir (Kafir) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 06:05 pm:

Homarid Youngster U
Creature - Homarid
1/1
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a tide counter on Homarid Youngster.
Whenever there are four tide counters on Homarid Youngster, remove all tide counters from it and put a +1/+1 counter on it.
--------------------------
Tidal Manipulator 2U
Creature - Homarid Wizard
1U: Remove a tide counter from target permanent.
1U: Put a tide counter on target permanent.
1/1

This second ability would be pretty deadly paired together with Tidecaster.
--------------------------
Homarid Elder 4UU
Creature - Homarid
When Homarid Elder attacks, attacking player sacrifices an island unless there is a tide counter on Homarid Elder.
6/6

A fattie. Drawback can be worked around if you play a deck full of tide counter manipulation.
--------------------------
Tidal Causeway
Land
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a tide counter on Homarid Lord.
As long as there is exactly one tide counter on Tidal Causeway, it has <T>: Add <1><U> to your mana pool.
Whenever there are two tide counters on Tidal Causeway, remove all tide counters from it.

The idea is okay, I'm just not sure whether this would give good synergy with the rest of the Homarids.
--------------------------
Water Shift U
Instant
Remove a tide counter from target creature. Draw a card.

Small cantrip to thin out the deck.
--------------------------
Aquatic Knowledge 1UU
Sorcery
Draw a card for each tide counter on target permanent.

If you play Tidecaster against a blue opponent that chooses to put all his forced tide counters on the same permanent, this would become a powerhouse. Even the thought of Aquatic Knowledge for six to refill your hand mid- or late-game might lead your opponent to sacrifice the permanent.
--------------------------
Brainwave 2UU
Sorcery
Counter target spell. Untap all permanents with a tide counter on them.

It's a hard counterspell combined with a strange, but often useful ability.
--------------------------
Moses' Curse 4R
Sorcery
Remove all tide counters from all permanents. Target creature can't block this turn.

By (Squeeman) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 06:36 pm:

For a Tidecaster ability, you might want to make that "U or 3". It would be in keeping with some cards in Fallen Empires (not a design requirement, but an interesting observation), but more to the point it would not be overkill against non-blue decks.

Homarid Elder: It could at least stand to have islandwalk or something. Otherwise, it's an interesting idea but kinda useless for everything except as fodder for Homarid Spawning Bed camarid tokens (along with the Elder's old pal, Deep Spawn).

How about stuff that could synergy well with the apparent weaknesses of homarids? Like the incessant "tap if you use this ability" or something that makes each tidal phase useful in its own way?

By Ghaleon (Xanatos_Yfel) on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 09:51 pm:

Tidecaster 3UU
Creature-Homarid Wizard
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player puts a tide counter on a permanent he or she controls.
At the end of each player's turn, for each permanent with a tide counter he or she controls , that player must pay 3 for each tide counter on that permanent or sacrifice it.
2/3

I didn't even notice the problem. I'd rather make it the same problem for all players, so I just equalized it. The flavor is that the tides are flooding over your lands and creatures, so that shouldn't be color-biased.

Freefloat UU
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant Permanent
Enchanted permanent gains protection from tide counters. This does not remove counters already on enchanted creature.

I don't know if this counts an an apparent weakness, but it will basically stop a homarid from cycling through the tide, and let it stop wherever you want it (presumably its biggest). This also protects against Tidecaster.

By Bwm Wil Mindctrl (Bwm) on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 04:32 am:

Tidecaster is also too good against blue decks. Sure, they can put a tide counter on one of their lands, but they won't be able to use that land anymore afterwards... Basicly the Tidecaster is just an Abyss for permanents...

With the added benefit that you have stuff to benefit from it. Also, it makes Tolarian Academy more broken than it currently is, since it can pay for all the tide counters.

But than again, the player can put a zillion tide counters on a single island and keep paying for that one with the same island, which'd make the card kind of crappy

By Ye Olde Kafir (Kafir) on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 04:53 am:

Quote BWM: "But than again, the player can put a zillion tide counters on a single island and keep paying for that one with the same island, which'd make the card kind of crappy."

That's where the Aquatic Knowledge comes in handy!

By Bwm Wil Mindctrl (Bwm) on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 12:29 pm:

Nope, the Tidal Manipulator is definetely better in that case, providing Vindicates for 1U.

By Ye Olde Kafir (Kafir) on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 06:39 pm:

We would have to watch out for printing cards too comboriffic. We don't want every other dude playing a combo/control-version of Homarids with Tidal Manipulator + Tidecaster backed up with cantrips and counters.

By Ghaleon (Xanatos_Yfel) on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 07:09 pm:

would it help to reduce tidecaster's remove cost to 1?