By Xion (Xion) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 06:01 pm:

The card must cost 2U and counter a spell unless your opponent does something.

By Slivers are cool (Kuzbriocheman) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 04:33 am:

Appropriation
2U
instant
Play this card only when another player has put a spell on the stack, you may only target the player who put this spell on the stack.
Target opponent chooses one: each player puts a card from his or her hand into play, or counter the spell that was put on the stack to allow you to play this spell.

By Homelands rules! (Psycho) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 02:57 pm:

Confession 2U
Instant
Counter target Proposal if your name is Lily and the controller of Proposal is named Richard, unless the caster of Proposal plays Forgive.
"Richard, I have a confession to make..."

Forgive 2W
Instant
(This spell does nothing on its own.)
"I forgive you, Lily"

Hello lameness

By Xion (Xion) on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 08:39 am:

...

By ApocalypsePrime (Jestergoblin) on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 12:55 pm:

Swift Kick to the Head
2U
Sorcery
You may play <this> as an instant.
Counter target spell. The spell's controller may let you kick him or her in the head swiftly. If he or she does, <this> is countered.

By Tou-ou (Nightmare) on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 02:41 pm:

Bleh 2U
Instant
Counter target spell that counter target spell that turn. Then you can counter any spell from here after without paying any mana cost for spells that counter spells. This spell cannot be countered, but is put aside with a counter, indicating that this spell has been played with a counter on this spell which countered target counter spell. This spell can be countered if your oppoenet removes a counter from target perament he controls, which has not been countered.

By Happy Thursday (Kenderman) on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 04:15 pm:

Brutal Slap 2U
Instant
Counter target spell unless your opponent has 5 or less life. If target spell cannot be countered because your opponent has 5 or less life, deals 2 damage to your opponent.
"It's easier to choose a bad truth and believe than it is to wonder about the real truth."
- Happy Thursday proverb

By ApocalypsePrime (Jestergoblin) on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 07:24 pm:

Do you know how hard it is to make a good counter for 2U AND have it be balanced?

It should have been 2UU.

By Homelands rules! (Psycho) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 04:40 am:

The WTF Counter 2UU
Instant
Instead of paying The WTF Counter's manacost, you pay 2U. If you do, counter target spell unless opponent pays 4 life.
Counter target spell. That spell's caster may gain 4 life.
"WTF?" - Richard Garfield

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 07:09 am:

---

Quote:

Do you know how hard it is to make a good counter for 2U AND have it be balanced?

It should have been 2UU.

---

By Xion (Xion) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 07:16 am:

Dimiss yes, but rewind is good. I don't care if it is not used in type 1 because I don't care about type 1.

By ApocalypsePrime (Jestergoblin) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 08:45 am:

Puschkin, I don't see you making cards.

In all honesty, 2U is an exceedingly awkward casting cost for a counterspell, even with limitations. Traditionally, 2U are soft counters (Rethink, Override, Oppressive Will, Ixidor's Will, Complicate, Circular Logic). Now, there is only ONE hardcounter with no restrictions on it in the 2U cost, Vex. Counter target spell. That spell's controller may draw a card. That's the ONLY one for that cost. The other 4 spells, Exclude (creatures only but technically a hard counter), Force Void, Liquify, and Thoughtbind all cost 2U but can only counter certain spells.

At 2UU you are allowed to make hard counters that do something cool. Foil, Quash, Thawrt, Minamo's Meddling. But that is a different type of contest.


A better contest would have been something like:

Create a card that costs 1UU and counters target spell. Or a card that costs 1U and counters a spell, then you'd HAVE to add a draw back.

Besides, at this point does anyone know how much a standard hard counter is supposed to cost?

Oblivionhop
2U
Instant
Unless an opponent lets you draw 2 cards, counter target spell.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 10:24 am:

I am done with making cards. It was fun when were starting doing it at TMD but the more serious you get about it, the more pointless and dull it gets. Wizards is changing it's guidelines, color pies, powerlevels and and everything way too often to keep up with it. When designing cards, I have ALWAYS entire Magic in mind, not just the recent two sets. You know, I was "raised" with the plain original Counterspell being the standard, a hardcounter at UU. And this card was standard for how many years, eight? It might have been a mistake, yes, but the problem is that a vanilla hardcounter should be costed at 2,5 mana. Now depending on the format and the newest policies of R&D you can add gimmicks, drawbacks, fancy block mechanics and whatever it will be, two years later it will be too good or too bad depending on their new policies ...

Xion, who was talking of Type I? In Type I counterspells should be named Mana Drain or have alternative casting costs, even the original Counterspell isn't played. Rewind sucked in ALL formats it was ever legal in, Dismiss, at least, was played in old Skies and MBC (Mono Blue Control such as CMU Blue), not Masques Block Constructed)decks. But even there it was only played because of the lack of decent cheaper counters. Any counterspell costing 4 or more mana without alternate casting cost is not playable in any serious deck regardless of the format (well, in constructed formats). At four mana you are unable to do anything because you have to have 4 mana open all the time. At four mana you are not paying less than the opponent for the spell you are countering anymore. At four mana many games are already virtually over or, more precisely, already decided.

I guess I should lock up all my Mana Leaks. If 3 mana hard counters need drawbacks these days, Mana Leak will be at 4 euro a pop in two years.

By Xion (Xion) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 02:12 pm:

Okay, now it is time to explain WHY they are making counterspells cost more in type 2.

1. The critical turn in type 2 is about 3. Having people able to answer things before then is going to be bad.

2. Isocron Scepter is still in type 2. Its ability to imprint the original counterspell thus creating an quick and easy lock is why they are not reprinting it or printing similiarly costed counterspells.

3. They did a poll that asked what kind of decks people hated playing against the most. Most people said control.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 03:08 pm:

1) That doesn't explain why cc3 counters have to have drawbacks! And if the critical turn is turn three and the counter is costing three, you can still answer almost everything! BTW, all that counterspells do is nullifying one card, no side gains anything. Yet this explanation is at least reasonable, although I just hate it that Type is the standard for everything these days.

2) So, instead of banning or errating Iso Scepter, which is a very stupid and unfair card to begin with, they start messing up things that have been working for years?

3) Excuse me, those polls do say sh1t. What does Joe Average know about Magic? If they would just listen to their polls, every second card would be a big trampling creature ...
... also, "control" is more than just counterspells. You could as well ban all spot removal and discard spells in that case. If you shut out out control, combo will go berzerk, I bet those people who hate control won't like that either.

That all doesn't change anything to what I said in my previous post though. Thats just the current policy of Wizards. Next year the critical turn in Type II could be 4 or the polls would state that people are hating combo now and that would mean they would change their agenda about counters once more. Which in turn would mean any card you created NOW would be unbalanced in either direction in one or two years.

I still remember when they took Sengir Vampire, Shivan Dragon and Serra Angel out of the base set because they were considered to bee too good for that mana (and out of flavour for those colours because they are efficient big flyers). Now that there are creatures like Silvos they are not undercosted anymore and since all of a sudden white is the flying colour, Serras are ack and good while Mahamotis are our of flavour. Maybe next year green has no tramplers but lots of flyers while blue gets the hurricanes ... I am just sick of that. If you want to participate in that circus, fine.

(I didn't want to spoil the fun for you guys but I was asked, so I answered)

By Tou-ou (Nightmare) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 03:17 pm:

I agree with Puschkin. though I don't remember them taking Shivan Dragon out of the base set. Sengir Vampire is coming back into Ninth.

They're trying to keep up with Yu-gi-oh, which has lasted longer than Pokemon. If you lok at the sets, Magic has gone down the same path. Making each set more stronger than the last. (Hell, Magic actually ripped Yu-gi-oh off with Morph. And "When this card is turned face up, such and such happens.") It's sad, but true.

Maybe R&D finally stretched their limits, they can no longer come up with more original cards, and have to start changing rules to allow more broken cards into the area. To be able to make cards that were once undercosted now balanced.

Yea, alot of pointless blabering in my post. And maybe I said what Puschkin said already, but that's my no cents. (Sense, Cents, Get it? Oh never mind.)

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 04:06 pm:

Well, to save Magic from "they ripped it off of Yugioh" I have to mention that Illusionary Mask and Camouflage are two cards that feature face-down creatures and these cards are in Alpha, the first set ever. So technically, morph creatures have been part of Magic from the beginning, no rip-off there (phew!).

By Tou-ou (Nightmare) on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 04:29 pm:

I meant with Onslaught. Not Illusionary Mask and Camoflauged. (They don't count as morph, you see?)

But I'm not gonna go into a debate about that. As long as my other statements are probably, theoetically, true.

By Homelands rules! (Psycho) on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:53 am:

RND hasn't strechted their limits. I sincerely fear that there will happen something desastrous before 2006 ends, such as a new color, or they'll stop making the multicolored cards Gold. I will be so pissed off if they do that! Changing the cardface of multicolored cards was one thing I barely survived, but that's as far as they should take it! Stay away from my Gold cards!!!

By ApocalypsePrime (Jestergoblin) on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:59 am:

I doubt it.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:35 am:

Haven't you seen the new gold cards? Dim the light and you can't sepeate them from white or artifact cards.

By Homelands rules! (Psycho) on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:03 pm:

I haven't tried that yet.

By Tou-ou (Nightmare) on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 03:00 pm:

Probably find Ravinca renames all the colours to...

Yellow
Turquise
Grey
Pink
Brown

By Erik on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 06:24 am:

NAME 2u
Instant
Counter target spell unless that spells player discards a card from his or her hand, if that player does, all players may draw 3 cards.

By Homelands rules! (Psycho) on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 06:45 am:

Erik, as much as we like new members, we usually only posts in threads that have been active at least since last week. You can find a Last Week link at your top left. It shows all the active threads. If you post only in these threads, people will stop screaming about
THREAD NECROMANCY!!!!!

By Homelands rules! (Psycho) on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 08:05 am:

Damn, another newt eaten alive... Sorry...

By Wraithlord on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 06:08 pm:

My counterspell

Grovel, FOOL!!!! 2U

Counter target spell unless the player of that spell gets on his or her knees, licks your shoes, and says "please let me play this spell, o mighty one"

"No"

By ApocalypsePrime (Jestergoblin) on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 08:49 pm:

NO! DID YOU MISS THE GIANT RED FONT?