By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 08:02 am:

I've been going through some of the old 6th Sphere discussions and found a few good conversations from back in the day, including some of the Storyline Digest conversations. As Phyrexia.com goes, they're not that old. Still, they make interesting reading and some are even mentally stimulating. These all take place around the time that WotC temporarily closed its forums and Phyrexia.com received a large influx of visitors.

More to the point, these discussions have nothing to do with the Mending, so here's something we can enjoy sans-bitching. We Phyrexians certainly complained in some of these threads, though. It is our way! And it all hearkens back to a day when we were complaining about other things.

I miss Kamahl, Space Cadet.

Storyline Digest #1

When WotC closed its novels and storyline board

Storyline Digest #2 (Poor Seals)

A Meeting of Phyrexian and... WotCeevian? minds

Storyline Digest #3

Storyline Digest #4

There are, of course, more Storyline Digests. And many, many more good old threads. But I thought I'd bring you these old gems. Maybe they're worth talking about.

I didn't even remember Al-Hayat.

By The Almighty (Mr_Dooples) on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:54 am:

I notice the dates are around Jan 04.. I should have been here then.. Where the hell am I? Hrmm, must have been right around the time I rediscovered drugs.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 03:39 am:

Some people rediscover drugs every day.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 03:57 am:

Was that when I made Will McDermott cry?

Those were the days. We were complaining about WotC doing absolutely stupid things, how horrible the Mirrodin Cycle was, and wondering when Teferi was going to come back. Now we're complaining about WotC doing absolutely stupid things, how horrible the Mirrodin Cycle was, and wishing Teferi would've stayed away.

The times, they are a'changin'.

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 09:30 pm:

Did someone say evolution, well below this point is a threhundred page report on how manacurves may be used to produce softice and lemonade!!!

Hah! you probably got scared for a moment there!

By The Almighty (Mr_Dooples) on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 08:31 am:

I think I just cried alittle.

By magicmaster (Element0) on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:38 am:

*smacks head on table*

By Nemesis (Nemesis) on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 07:36 pm:

Oh yes. Al-Hayat. I remembered him this morning then logged on and saw him mentioned here. What a waste of a character.

Anyway, since it's been a long time since I've picked up one of the books and, quite frankly, can't be bothered, would anyone mind briefly explaining to me (in 150 words or less, or maybe a couple haiku) what's happened since I stopped reading? (Right after 5th Dawn).

Cheers!
Nemesis

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 10:22 pm:

Good to see you, Nemesis.

The Kamigawa Cycle was mainly concerned with a massive war on the plane of Kamigawa. Konda, lord of the human nation of Eiganjo, stole an artifact called That Which Was Taken from the spirit world in an effort to make his reign an immortal one. This happened on the same night his daughter, Michiko, was born. The normally benign spirit world revolted, causing a massive war between the physical and spiritual realms. Eventually Toshiro Umezawa reluctantly became involved, subtly manipulating both sides of the conflict while increasing his own power in the bargain. The war was ended when Toshi freed a spirit called Kyodai from That Which Was Taken. Kyodai and Michiko became the new guardians of Kamigawa, ending the Kami War.
Eid's Rating: B+

The Ravnica Cycle took place on a plane called Ravnica, a plane entirely dominated by one massive city divided into ten guilds. Certain guilds tried to gain the upper hand, with all of them being manipulated by the Azorius Senate. Eventually the Guildpact (a magical document preventing one guild from ever gaining control over another) was destroyed.
Eid's Rating: A-

The Time Spiral Cycle detailed Teferi's return to Dominaria. Teferi found the landscape ruined and incapable of healing because of massive tears in the fabric of time that were caused by various apocalyptic events (the Golgothian Sylex, the Phyrexian Invasion, Karona, etc.). Eventually the rifts were all sealed, at the expense of every planeswalker with the exception of Nicol Bolas and Karn and Teferi (the latter two had their sparks removed).
Eid's Rating: F

The Lorwyn Cycle has only had one book released thus far. It's mainly concerned with one elf, Rhys, as he tries to come to terms with his race's fanatical devotion to exterminate life forms that are deemed, for lack of a better word, ugly. It's still too early to say so far, but as of right now ...
Eid's Rating: F

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 11:06 am:

The conclusion of the Time Spiral cycle dictated that planeswalkers could no longer exist in the multiverse as such. So Dominia evidently sucked away all their sparks and a new "type" of planeswalker emerged. They are planeswalkers only in name and in the fact that they can traverse the planes. The resemblance ends there.

I'm mentioning the Time Spiral Cycle because it pissed a lot of people off. There have been fairly rabid debates between lots of people as to whether it was a good idea. A lot of people angrily feel like the 'new regime' of of storyline plotters basically executed the move so that they could whitewash away the older stories to avoid any kind of follow up (i.e. they see it as the creative team saying "the Multiverse works differently now because we said so, so suck it up and deal with it"). Others are happy to accept the plot twist for what it is (that's all well and fine what with opinion and free will and all, although those who go so far as to actively defend it instead of just living with it often fall back on easily refuted company lines by way of argument). My description probably shows my obvious bias against the move. Still, something like only 1/10 of all online posters I've seen who have actually been following the continuity for more than three years seem to like the direction.

I mean, who can actually legitimately argue that Urza, Freyalise, Szat, Leshrac, etc, were all unequivocally bad characters who had a negative effect on the stories? Show me such a person and I will show you a person who is wrong.

Kamigawa and Ravnica were standalone stories. That is, they happened on new worlds (in the style of Mirrodin) and had mostly self-contained plots. Time Spiral was a wrecking ball disguised as a retcon disguised as a story, but it was definitely built up around tie-ins to the Weatherlight and Urza stories, as well as Legends Cycle 2 and the Ice Age Cycle. Lorwyn goes back to the style of Ravnica and Kamigawa, being thus-far self-contained. However, given that WotC really want to promote their new planeswalker cards (based on the new type of planeswalker), it's not impossible that these newbies will show up in the upcoming stories and bring the plot to a more multiversal level.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 03:26 pm:

I find it very amusing that Dommermuth can spout about how it's impossible to have a good storyline revolving around characters with power levels akin to planeswalkers. Apparently, he doesn't consider the Weatherlight Saga or the Time Spiral Cycle to be a good story. I think Scott McGough might like to offer a different view on both of those cases.

The decision was bogus. The current head of continuity can spout corporate BS as much as he likes about how it was a decision based on an agreement the continuity team decided. I suppose this decision just happened to be made at a time when planeswalkers were going to become a card type? I'll never buy that one.

And of course the "Don't cry because teh walkerz r ded!" argument is just silly. I don't care when characters die as long as it's done to advance the plot. Urza was a great character, one of my favorites, but he needed to die in order for the Weatherlight Saga to end. It was necessary, just like the death of Boromir was necessary to spur Denethor into a position of imbalanced sanity to pave the way for Aragorn to become the king of Gondor. It makes sense with respect to the plot. Indeed, the plot wouldn't make sense otherwise. The same holds true for Urza's death. It does not hold true for the mass executions we had in Time Spiral.

Aside from that, the trilogy was very poorly written. I have a hard time believing that the same writer who came up with Chainer and Toshi Umezawa is the same who wrote this garbage. Garbage is a strong word, but that's how I feel, like it was a wasted effort at entertainment. Personally, I'm worried that with Time Spiral, McGough has gone the way of J. Robert King--he started out great, but too much work on a short timeframe equals not a good delivery.

Nemesis, just wait until A Dance With Dragons. I'm banking on Tyrion making me forget all about the stupidity of Dommermuth & co.'s recent decisions.

By Nemesis (Nemesis) on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 05:33 pm:

Oh, here's something amusing: in the poll on the front page (which I think has been up since the days when I was actually a regular poster) asking "What new Magic novel or series would you most like to see?" the winner is still "Post Apocalypse" by a long shot (35.53%, with the second being Homelands with 17.26%). More evidence why you really need to be careful what you wish for, I guess.

As for me, I think I must have voted for Homelands and Fallen Empires something like 10 times each over the years.

By Lord Priest (Xdritex) on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 06:09 pm:

Eid, in defence of McGough, and King both, i urge you to look at what is considered to be their hated works within the community. Then take a look at the corporate level of how the game and brand was being run.

It's obvious to me, that clearly you get crap novels out of crap being handed to you to work with. How do you put care into something, you know already is going to be hated, as you write it?

Personally, I think the novels themselves out of the Time Spiral Cycle were written well. I was enjoying them until the end. It was only after gettign to then end, and realising the full purpose did I come to despise what had been done. Sure, Freyalise and Windgrace died, but I thought they were at least written as going out in a fashion of sense to their way of doing things. And again, while it was going on, I wasn't happy they died, but the novel gave me hope that there really was somethign good to be comming out of all of it; but of course we end it and fall down wondering why.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 06:12 pm:

I am of two minds about Time Spiral. While I was reading the books, I had countless moments of geeky joy as old characters and locales finally reappeared. Some were well portrayed (I think of the Ghitu, and Scott will always be the king of the Keldons), while others, after the initial coolness of their return died down, were disappointing.

However, I absolutely hate the end result. I totally dislike the retcon to the original planeswalkers' powers (they somehow inherently cause rifts in space-time, and this has always been the case, and their mere existence would, on its own, have destroyed the multiverse), which strikes me as a lazy plot device that was engineered more so that the continuity team could get rid of planeswalkers and have a frame for their "timeshifting" gig with the cards, than as the basis for a good plot.

I mean, imagine if future makers of James Bond movies decide they don't like the premise of the franchise, and say "Oh, James Bond inevitably destroys the universe by merely existing, so let's replace him with the character of Slappy the Gun-Toting Bullfrog. Slappy will take the 'code name' of James Bond so that technically he has the same name as the guy he's replacing. Plus, he also has a gun so it's all kosher. I bet people will relate to the character of Slappy more closely. The fans will love us for this."

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 04:18 pm:

Dritex, I have to disagree. I got very, very little enjoyment out of reading that particular trilogy even before the ending of Future Sight ruined it for me. For me, one of the greatest things about Scott's work was the constant gallows humor. It was completely absent this time around. Another great thing about Scott's work are his main characters. Chainer and Toshi were great as rogueish "what's in it for me" protagonists. Tetsuo was great as a "my station and my honor are assymetrical, now what am I going to do about it" protagonist. But Teferi? He just bored me, and that's something Teferi should never do.

And while I did get the same Vorthosian glee as Squeeman mentioned with regard to certain areas of the trilogy (Keld in particular), I cringed at other half-thought-out throwbacks to older storylines. The snowrexians? What in the hell? Snorexians and slivers teaming up to attack Skyshroud, and Volrath has something to do with it? No thank you. That sounds like badly written fanfiction that was thrown together by someone in junior high. Leshrac basically needing an invention of the MoNR in order to attempt to attack Bolas? That's like me needing my dog's water bowl before I can fight Hulk Hogan.

So even before the Meandering, as I like to call it, I still had problems with the trilogy. Since Planeshift, I've read ever Magic novel in one sitting. That tradition ended with Planar Chaos, when I simply couldn't read anymore and had to take a break. That in itself is something of a feat.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 05:29 pm:

CAUTION: SPOILERS

Highlight to view.

Well, my initial reactions to the first two books were good, each with a few dozen "but..." clauses. I had plenty of "Vorthosian" moments. But Teferi didn't feel like Teferi (at first), Jodah didn't feel like Jodah (his best spell was a glob of acid?), and so on. I did think that Jhoira worked out fine.

One of the points I met with greatest ambivalence was the death of Freyalise. On the surface, Freyalise has always been an imperious female dog. But if you've read the past novels with her, read the Ice Age comics, and possibly the recently released blurb on her from the secret WotC database, then she's more than that. She's almost a tragic figure; her ascension in the Ice Age comic certainly supports this. She's saved the world numerous times, but either she is despised for it (Jodah reprimanding her at the end of The Eternal Ice), or she plays second fiddle to crazy people (as one of the Nine Titans). As I imagine her (and as is hinted in TEI), Freyalise was genuinely affected by what people thought of her. The whole "loner" thing and her need to be a maternal, queenly figure to the elves, were to a certain degree her way of coping with that. So I like the idea that she was shamed into revealing her inner altruism. That is the context of a death I feel would do Freyalise justice as a character.

However, by the time Windgrace had to sacrifice himself, I thought "...wait." I didn't like the pattern that was emerging, and retrospectively I thought 'Alise's death was becoming pretty meaningless. By the time it was decided that Karn had to pull the same move, it was getting redundant. This is to say nothing of book three. Also, a geeky part of me feels that no matter how post-revisionist her death, there should be a mention of the angel trinket from the first Ice Age comic. Somehow, it seems like it would be a poetic finish.

Then, there's the return of Leshrac. I figured it out instantly when he first contacts the Weaver King. It certainly got my attention. I liked that Leshrac retained his manipulative streak. Still, I couldn't help but feel totally dissatisfied with his demise. The Leshrac vs. Bolas duel essentially felt like a "Who Does Scott McGough Like Better" contest, with the author's own character winning in the end.

Nicol Bolas's return? That was fun. We all knew we wanted him to, anyway. His (initially disguised) utter smackdown of Leshrac? Disappointing. The best part of that duel was the brief montage of planeswalking, what with its many cameos.

Venser? To be perfectly honest, Venser felt very much like Haddad. My favorite Venser scene is when he's building the ambulator with the Ghitu. But frankly that's more because of the Ghitu. He gets a little more interesting later on, when he starts developing character. And he practically sucker punched Jodah? Wtf?

Unfortunately for Venser, the whole "a new kind of planeswalker is emerging" plotline began to pick up at about the same time. At the time, I knew nothing of the Mending. But when I was reading it, I almost instantly groaned. A "new type of planeswalker" just sounded like a lame idea to me. In my opinion, planeswalkers are supposed to be extraordinary. The highways and byways of the Blind Eternities are cluttered enough without every new block introducing a whole new class of beings who can travel them. And when someone pulls a "there's a 'new type' of [insert centrally important part of the story universe]" move, it's almost always indicative of a series jumping the shark IMHO. I hope this isn't the case here.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 02:29 pm:

I think that particular Carcharodon carcharias has officially been hurdled.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 05:59 pm:

I don't particularly understand your distaste for bizarro copies, Eid. You seem to have a bizarro copy of your own at the WotC boards in the form of Rogue Shadows.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 07:54 am:

Well. That was in poor taste of me. And totally nonsensical. Sorry?