By Squeeman on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 09:56 pm:

In Phyrexia, Urza found his brother suffering under a torture device, where he had been for the past four thousand twenty five years. Urza left his brother at the hands of his tormentors. Did Mishra survive the gutting of Phyrexia? If he did, then what might his role be in the future? Master of what remains of Phyrexia, perhaps?

Furthermore, how did he survive in the same state for four thousand years? Yawgmoth could easily prolong someone's life, and the priests could conceivably stitch a fragile human back together (although their specialty is to create unfeeling beings, which Mishra, given his pain, was not). There is another option, though. Yawgmoth had technologies which could supress planeswalkers' abilities. Was Mishra a planeswalker like his brother? That could be how he could be eternally damaged, and there would always be room for more as he regenerates. Yawgmoth's technology could have prevented him from planeswalking. Was Mishra, then, a planeswalker?

By KillTheVec on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 11:59 pm:

He was just an illusion, in my opinion. The real Mishra died a long time ago, before the sylex blast, thanks to the priests of Gix.

By JG the Walker (Jestergoblin) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:21 am:

I agree with KillTheVec, much like how Selenia was an illusion to make Crovax a slave to Phyrexia. In Phyrexia, Yawgmoth is god, creating the image of someone suffering would, In my opinion, be fairly easier for someone who has been ruling for the last 9,000 years.

By Mr. Dooples (The_Almighty) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:44 am:

Nah, i think Mishra has been granted the gift of Squee. He not only dies a hundred times a day, but he ides in the most horrible of pain. Although he was a test for Urza, i still think he was really there.

By Zwitter on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:30 am:

god damnit...look at us......we are acting foolish
....We know that Phyrexia is gone.....The same fate is with every other character that was once decent...They are all dead......MAgic decided to move on...THey wont bring phyrexia back, Yawgmoth was phyrexia He was their king, their god, their savior. Yawgmoth is dead and so is phyrexia, when will we move forth and realize this? Magic is dead, all that is left is this pathetic story line that is nothing compared to the Dominaria/Phyrexia conflict. Maybe im still angry at them for killing of phyrexia and all of my favs. I dont know if im preeching to the choir or speaking to myself. I stopped buying magic chards after armagedon becasue of the death of phyrexia, and i know many others who have done the same. I love phyrexia and i wont buy anymore of their cards untill they bring some aspect of phyrexia back, weither it be a chard called "phyrexian Scrapheap" or some strange cult that weares dead phyrexians, i dont know, i just love phyrexia and this new storyline sux ass.

By Squeeman on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:31 am:

I find it impossible that Urza, planewalkerhood, eyes, and all would be fooled by a petty illusion. Furthermore, the story is much better with Mishra's ultimate suffering. It obviously wasn't him at the climax of the Brothers' War. And Yawgmoth pretty much admits that it is him by saying that he is never used. What else would he do? Mishra was definitely real. There is so little room for doubt. King even bothers to tell us of he next twelve seconds of his life after Urza leaves .

Of course Yawgmoth could create an illusion of Mishra. He could even create a summoned Mishra. Urza would be able to sense the falsehood, though.

By Squeeman on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:32 am:

As for the priests of Gix, they probably didn't kill Mishra. They probably just led him into Phyrexia or to Gix, where he was captured.

By Yldal Varghedin (Yldal) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 06:43 am:

Without Yawgmoth there to heal and resurrect Mishra, he'd most likely die pretty quickly. Other parts of Phyrexia could concievably still be around, though King did say that all Phyrexians died when yawgmoth did, thus leaving no living thing on Phyrexia, which would then implode much like Serra's Realm.

By Squeeman on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:50 am:

Th Phyrexians did not die. When they bore witness to his death, they became stunned. Imagine seeing the purpose of your existence disappear. They went into a total supor.

As for Mishra, if he was a planeswalker (which he might or might not have been), then he would not have died. The death of Yawgmith does not necessarily mean that all the machinery of Phyrexia was destroyed. If it was some machine that continually rebuilt his interiors, then it might still be continuing. I doubt Yawgmoth personally tended to Mishra all the time. It was his priests. When he died, they, oblivious to it, probably continued the work.

Not all of Phyrexia was destroyed. It existed several hundred years without a patron (matron) to keep it going. Planes don't disappear instantaneously when their patrons leave. They take centuries, if not millenia. Phyrexia has at least a few more centuries, and besides, it was not subjected to such a high amount of destructive opposite mana as Serra's Realm. Also, Serra's Real did not implode (except because of Urza). It was dissolving.

Not much remains of Phyrexia, but what is left could be rebuilt, provided someone managed to enter the Inner Sphere and assume control.

It seems that everyone but myself has completely ruled out that Mishra is still alive. I find that a little premature, given the huge possibilty that he could have survived all that time. Still, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. If it turns out that I was right, nothing, and I do mean nothing, will stop me from saying "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Interesting point raised. If Yawgmoth went Squee style on Mishra, then that means that Squee cannot die of old age, which would settle a long debate. I know what eid's thinking. MISHRA WAS VOLRATH!

By eidtelnvil on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:11 pm:

Was there ever any doubt?

Squeeman, I'm going to officially join the bandwagon of one and say that we do not at this time have enough reason to suspect that Mishra is dead. He was in the seventh sphere when the explosions rocked Phyrexia, but that doesn't mean that he would be instantly crushed.

I've never really thought of the "Phyrexians were stunned" idea. I always assumed they died when the Ineffable (still won't use his name, thank you very much) died. I think even with the death of their reason for living, they still would've been less than receptive to the Benalish children dismatnling them. It does, however, provide an answer to why their are Phyrexians still alive after the Ineffable (there it is again) was killed in the Balthor story in The Secrets of Magic.

By Unicron695 (Unicron695) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:20 pm:

Here's a thought, what do you think happened to Mishra when the explosion hit him? If urza had the ability to become a planswalker, and a planswalkers spirt is what the bomb was, then could Mishra be a 'walker now? Or maybe phyrexia felt that its master had left and infused him with the 9 spheres energy before the bombs were detonated?

By Squeeman on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 03:02 pm:

I prefer to call him the Lord of the Wastes, myself.

Do you mean the Sylex explosion? Because if so, Mishra probably wasn't around at the time. Do you mean the explosions in Phyrexia? Because if so, much of the plane was untouched.

I don't think that being blasted by a soul bomb automatically makes one a planeswalker. There would be many more planeswalkers if that was the case.

If Mishra was a 'walker, then he probably has been one for the past few thousand years.

My personal favorite overspeculated, unproven idea is that Mishra will inherit Phyrexia. One in a million chance that that will happen.

At the end of Apocalypse, it says that the Phyrexians bore witness to the death of their god and fell into such a stupor that even kids hacked them apart without initiating a response. I always assumed that as most Phyrexians would have been occupying or approaching densely populated areas (that is to say, ex densely populated areas), they would make easy targets and be killed soon. However, those in remote areas might have snapped out of it after a few days, or whatever. The Balthor story actually did not occur to me. Huh.

Mishra may or may not be dead. If he isn't, then he may or may not be a future storyline element. Also, he may or may not be a planeswalker, though in all possibility Yawgmoth kept him alive in the same manner as Squee (assuming that Squee actually DID get his strange power from Crovax and is not just some mystery). That also means that Mishra is still alive, as Squee's ability did not die with the Ineffable.

I've just been rambling on. Whatever point I wanted to make probably got lost halfway though what I was saying.

By 80s_boy...ErrIMeanKillTheVec on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 04:41 pm:

The Sylex explosion was when Urza poured his memories into the sylex and it went boom. Remember, the Mishra-DragonEngine thing was flying at him at that particular point in time

Boo-yah!

By Nemesis on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:09 pm:

Question: at what point did the real Mishra become the machine Mishra? Was he killed and replaced by the machine, or was he made into a more powerful being in service of Phyrexia, along the lines of Gix?

A few questions I have been pondering while working on the entry.

By KillTheVec on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:28 am:

I assume it was when after he became associated with the priest, years before Argoth. but thats my opinion...

By KillTheVec on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:28 am:

I assume it was when after he became associated with the priests of Gix, years before Argoth. but thats my opinion...

By eidtelnvil on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:48 pm:

Mishra as the lord of Phyrexia would be a great storyline idea, but I doubt the Phyrexians would follow him. Even the ones who realize the Ineffable is dead would only follow his memory, or someone who represents him and followed his phyresisology (look ma, made a word). Mishra wouldn't be to keen on the Big Y after suffering under him for 4200 years.

Now an insane Mishra Planeswalker (TM) wandering the planes screaming out his brother's name and cursing all life, on the other hand ...

By tefgara on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 06:34 pm:

has everyone forgotten this:

In the Author Bio in "the Secrets of Magic" anthology, It says

When J . Robert King was asked to write for The secrets of Magic, he replied, " Secrets? What secrets?I have no secrets. I tell you everything Jess. I'm offended you even asked. We both know those rumors are false. Y*wgmoth is, well - dead. Why would I lie? Why would I fake something like that? Where would I even hide him? Sure, I was rooting for him, but you told me to kill him, so I made sure...What?...An anthology...?Oh, forget I even brought up- How much money...? Sure!"

Hmm......
Does King have a website, and do we know what his latest project is? Does the re-rising of phyrexia sound plausible?

If Mairsil can "merge" with someone, do you think the Ineffable could?

Yawgra? Mishmoth? hmmm......

Volmoth? Yawgrath? [ there you go eid ]

By Nemesis on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 08:39 pm:

Yawguatus?

By Lim-Deûs, Lim-Dûl's High Guard (Lim_Deus) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:04 pm:

If he did combine with anyone before he died, then the chances would be he's probably somewhere inside Karn right now.

By eidtelnvil on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:18 pm:

King doesn't have his own website, but he shares one with the rest of the Eliterates. I'm not sure what the exact address is.

By Zwitter on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 02:00 am:

sure wed all love to have phyrexia back but its gone.

Has anyone ever made a list of every Phyrexian creature made as a card?

By Squeeman on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 07:26 am:

Alliterates. Try that with a .com at the end.

Remember Rebbec went into the center of Phyrexia, and managed to assume control, although she was slightly pushed back. Now Mishra has been living with the Ineffable for the past 4000 years. Also, he had a much more Yawgmothian attitude than Rebbec.

Either way, a surviving Mishra would be trememndously interesting, as well as a good pseudo-return to the old, without having to resurrect people left and right.

King could easily have been talking in pure honesty. Here, take this money and stop whining. On the other hand, he did say that YAWGMOTH is dead. Not Phyrexia. And who knows if Gix ever survived being cast through time with Xantcha and Ratepe.

Possible candidates for the inheritance of Phyrexia:
Gix
Mishra
Leshrac
Another Inner Circle Member (Croag? although you assume he was killed for failure)
Karnmoth

Of course, this is only speculation.

By direxion on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 07:45 am:

ive only read brothers war, so i dont really understand y@wgmoth (i dont understand y everyone uses a @ either )but i think gix would be a pretty good ruler.

By Squeeeman on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 07:59 pm:

When you get to read Planeswalker, you'll understand. It is forbidden for Phyrexians to ever say the word "Yawgmoth" for various reasons (I don't want to spoil it for you, so I won't say what they are).

It is just a sort of ongoing joke/game that no one in the Phyrexian Forum should say the name. Some people really stick to thiss and occasionally even act shocked by the name, while others use it when they want. Do what you want. Personally, I think it is amusing to find ways around it, by calling him by his various titles (the Ineffable, the Dark Lord, Father of Machines (or simply, 'Our Father'), Lord of he Wastes (my fave), etc, etc), or, when it is grammatically insane to ignore writing his name, then substituting letters in ways like Y@wgmoth, Y*wgm*oth an so on and so forth is okay.

By KillTheVec on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 08:51 pm:

yawgmoth, yawgmoth, yawgmoth.

The word Yawgmoth shall now replace the words:

Tree
Cheese
Eminem
Soldev
Kamahl
Dumb

For example, "Kamahl ate some cheese in Soldev because the tree doesnt like Eminem" becomes:
Yawgmoth ate some Yawgmoth in Yawgmoth because the Yawgmoth Yawgmoth doesnt like Yawgmoth.

By Unicron695 (Unicron695) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 09:20 pm:

Squeeman: I don't think that WotC would bring back Gix; If it was marvel, then sure, but how would he come back? If both Urza and the Ineffable couldn't take him down then nothing could.

By KillTheVecHasAPosseInEffect on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 11:06 pm:

Since Planeswalker was a yawn-and-a-half, wtf was up with Gix traveling through time?!?!?!?!!??!?!?


How is that blatantly possible?!?!?!?!?!!?1?

And how come xantcha and ratepe destroyed gix by jumping into his time portal thing??

By Nifallor, Ruler of Kaironia and personally favors Yawgie on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 03:37 am:

New Option:

Karn = living artifact
Phyrexia =/was world made for living artifacts

Suggestion:

Karn takes over Phyrexia and takes in Artifact Creatures, remakes it in the image of it's original owner.

By Squeeman on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:55 am:

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think that Gix will return either. Both Urza and Yawgmoth could take Gix. I don't follow your logic.

By Nemesis on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:50 pm:

I don't think Mishra is coming back. here is my theory.

After he was killed in Argoth, the Ineffable summoned his soul so he could torment it for failure. When the Ineffable died, the spell ended, and Mishra's soul went on to whatever afterlife they have.

By SQueeman on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:15 am:

I don't know if Yawgmoth could command people's soulls. Only their bodies, and he could influence their minds. Thats it, if he did't want to waste time killing them and changing their minds with his priests.

By Nemesis on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 07:49 pm:

one of the stories in the Secrets of Magic (the one about Sisay) mentions magic that can bring back souls from the afterlife and torment them. Maybe he used one of those.

By Apprentice (Apprentice) on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 07:59 pm:

Magic can do just about what it pleases. Or it evolves to do. Especially someone as powerful as Yawg.

-Apprentice

By Squeeman on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:03 pm:

Yes, but Apoc made it pretty clear that he does not own souls.

By Nemesis on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:17 pm:

maybe he does, but would rather not give Gerrard/Crovax that which they really desired, but a substitute. I still maintain that he can summon them for his own purposes.

By Squeeman on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:00 am:

No. I think Apoc was pretty precise on that point. I could be wrong, though.

By Nemesis on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 08:23 pm:

he did raise about half the worlds Dead Stuff...

By Squeeman on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 08:13 am:

Thats bodies not souls. In theory, there is a big difference between the two.

By Tilar on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 12:11 am:

Agreed. It even mentioned him raising a shade of Barrin. If that was actually Barrin, I'm sure he would have just gotten right back to fighting Phyrexians. But since it was just a shade, I don't think it had any real semblance of Barrin.

By Squeeman on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:53 pm:

No, no. He raised the body of Barrin on Tolaria. Zombies usually don't remember too much of their past lives.

By Tilar on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 11:44 pm:

Nope, I just checked. It clearly says that "his physical form had been blasted away" and that he was merely a "specter". I'm agreeing with you though, and saying that he can't raise souls. If that had been his soul, he probably would have just cast the same spell again and again.

By Xion on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 03:13 pm:

Yawgmoth lives! and I predict he will be in the story somehow in onslaught cycle.