By Zwitter on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 09:40 pm:

After reading the Thran i thought about something new, Technology in MtG.

After 9000 years of evolution and warfare, i find it very hard to believe that the Civilizations in mtg arent flying around in space and exploring diffrent planets. If u think about it the technollogy really hasnt advanced at all, The technollogy from the era of "The Thran" is very very much the same with the technology from apocolypse. I understand that the ice age did hold back all technollogy improvements but that still wouldnt acount for so few improvements over the years. Whats the deal?

By Chainer on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 10:25 pm:

It did take many thousands of years for man to go from living in caves to the Roman Empire which is probably where Magic is at. But don't forget that Urza made the titan machines which are very advanced even for our age because they are robots that people travel in. Give Magic a thousans years and their technology sould be up to date.

Since outer space has never been mentioned in Magic, it may not exist. Maybe their outer space is the Blind Eternities. Because since they are on planes and not planets, they would have different principles(it all goes don to science).

By TX on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:42 am:

Right, remember a couple of things. For one, we don't have any inexaustable power sources like powerstones.

For another, Chainer hit the point of outer space dead on. There is one planet per plane it seems. Traveling directly "up" in a given plane will not take you out of the plane, though I don't know exactly what would happen.

Third, imagine all the powerful nations unite. Then there is a great civil war followed by nuclear holocaust. Every major city on the planet is decimated. All of the major world leaders are dead (or in the case of the Thran, in exile). How long would we take to regain the level of technological achievement gained prior to the nuclear war? When the Roman Empire fell, Europe did not manage to fully regain it's past stature for almost 1000 years. The fall of the Thran Empire was on a much grander scale. The larger the empire, the longer it takes to rebuild after it ceases to exist. Read The Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov for more theory on that.

By direxion on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 06:51 am:

since they were on planes, does that mean if they kept walking theyd come to the end and fall off? or are they still round?

By Squeeman on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:48 am:

Dman it. My incredibly enlightening post didn't show up! I hate it when that happens. Oh well. TX and Chainer summed most of it up.

Another thing is that the people of Dominaria have the luxury of relying on magic. Most people can just learn magic to supply their needs, rather than have to spend so much time learning about complex machines. Magic is simpler, and in some aspects more reliable than machines. Why waste time learning so much about technology, when a few years of study can get you so much more immediate comfort/usefulness? It fills the niche of technology in so many ways. The Thran, for example, had very little magic, and what they had was quite undeveloped. Later nations had the luxury of magic, and didn't need technology so much, although after the Antiquities War, people had gained a great appreciation for the might in artifice, and thus knowledge of it was preserved, atough individuals tended to take more interes in it than groups (excluding Soldev).

The Foundation books are good. Read them anyway.

By Squeeman on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:50 am:

As for the planes, it is unkown how they work, but it is known that the planes are usually planets, although how they work is unclear, and they are separated by reality. This plane stuff is very vague.

By eidtelnvil on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 12:30 pm:

Another reason why technology isn't up to cloning and space travel is because every time a civilization masters one particular science, somebody blows up it.

Thran Empire - Greatest artifact wielding race ever seen on Dominaria. Created the use of powerstones. Were on the brink of creating unlimited pocket dimensions. Destroyed during the Ineffable's departure from Dominaria.

Terisiare - Various artifact creatures running on an unlimited power supply. These creatures included war machines, time keeping devices, beasts of burden, and more. They were destroyed during the Sylex disaster.

Kjeld - Various artifacts used, including war machines and weather prediction devices. Destroyed during the Worldspell.

Apocalypse Age Dominaria - Artifact use had risen in certain places to a very high degree. Armies had been slowly replaced by artifact creatures in parts of Jamuraa. Tolaria had created artifacts such as the Weatherlight, the Legacy, and even a functioning time machine. All were wiped out/destroyed during the Ineffable's return to Dominaria.

Modern Day Dominaria - Me Kamahl, throw big rocks.

By Lim-Deûs, Lim-Dûl's High Guard (Lim_Deus) on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 02:35 pm:

Not to mention that different civilizations develop at different rates. Like during the middle ages, progress ground to a halt because the system countries worked under was self-defeating. And since Mtg mimics the middle ages in many ways minus The Church, you'd expect slow progress, if any.

By TX on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 03:47 pm:

Well, minus The Church except in the Dark. Tal=Yahweh=Allah=God....c'mon, some random sun god gains an enormous amount of popularity? Sound familiar anyone?

By Momento Mori on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 03:54 pm:

Well.... the Order in Odysee Block is a bit like the church... and in ice age the church also has a presence.

By KillTheVec on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:01 pm:

No. The church went down after the attack on the Conclave. that was the height of their power, after that, they went down.

by the ice age, they went down.


the church of tal began as 2 close sun worshipping cults in early Yotia.

By Tyler on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:46 pm:

The Order always remminded me of the Early Catholic church.

By Squeeman on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:33 pm:

Well, both the Church and the Order were set up afte times of grat devastation to retain peace, and revet devastation n the future.

By Serra Avatar on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:54 pm:

This is about planet stuff you guys were discussing. What about the thing in Jedit? They made it seem it came from space.

By Tilar on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:59 pm:

I'd have to agree with Squeeman's earlier post. I think the main factor is magic. There are so many fields of magic to be studied, and I think they have most of them set down pretty well. While us in the real world only have science. Imagine if one day we discover this force that allows to do the things like Magic cards do, then all our development would suddenly be split in half. There are only so many resources to study so many things at a time. So, even though Dominaria has had this long(Though I'd really start the count from the end of the Ice Age), their resources have been split. Where they lack technologically, they make up in magic. What we lack in magic, we make up in technology.

Those're my thoughts.

By Chainer on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 09:43 pm:

Actually the definition of a plane is kinda like a square that goes of in all directions, but never ends. Maybe Magic's planes have a different defenition.

By TX on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:29 am:

One man's magic is another man's technology. If someone from the 3rd century BC were to see something as simple to us as a lighter, he would think it were magic.

By Nifallor, Ruler of Kaironia on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 09:04 am:

Don't forget it!!

Urza had to RE-discover a way to create powerstones. It took from the Thran untill Urza before people understood powerstones, and even Urza didn't know everything about them.

By TX on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 11:02 am:

Oh, btw...Chainer, that's the mathematical definition. We're talking about planes of existence here, different concept.

By Squeeman on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 07:34 pm:

Still, I think I'll start a new discussion about it.