By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 02:49 pm:

No, this has nothing to do with Batman.

I decided to build a mono-black (with the possibility of artifacts) feudal knights themed deck for casual play. Black is the often forgotten secondary color for knights, and I want to see a dark knight deck that'll teach those pesky knights of white a lesson.

The basic idea is that all creatures must be of type Knight (without cheating, like Conspiracy) or Wall (because even knights like their defenses). The deck must win by attacking, and it must have four Black Knights. And some Shadow Riders, because I like those guys. Paladins don't count. Any wall must try as hard as possible to fit the feudal warfare theme- Wall of Spears would be an acceptable example. Equipments are fine, as long as they're knightly weapons (and not, for instance, a shuriken).

Noncreature spells must largely follow a combat theme (Unholy Strength, not Doomsday, for instance), although mana acceleration (Dark Ritual, Sacrifice), creature removal, and other minor exceptions are acceptable as long as they strictly follow a flavor of combat or something that might be done in a feudal culture of questionable moral standing.

Dark Knights:

Black Knight x 4
Shadow Rider x 3
Knight of Stromgald x 3
Dauthi Mercenary x 2
Order of Yawgmoth x 2
Marauding Knight x 2
Stromgald Crusader x 2

Bad Moon x 4
Unholy Strength x 4
Dark Ritual x 4
Death Stroke x 4

Coat of Arms x 4

Ebon Stronghold x 4
Swamp x 16


The arrangement of knights I've made is more or less arbitrary. I'm aiming for the best selection of dark knights for the most efficient deck that can be made given the theme. Haakon would be in there if I could find a knightly way to sneak reanimation in. Urza's Incubator would be there if knights were hatched out of pods instead of born. The noncreature spells are just tentative too, but a turn 1 Black Knight with Unholy Strength is not a bad start for an opening hand. So if you have any suggestions for my campaign against the white-aligned knights, then my armies of darkness can use your immoral help.

Of course, if my deck idea is terrible, then I challenge you to come up with another, better dark knight deck that follows the same basic guidelines.

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 07:41 am:

Where does knights come from??? You may want to add some apprentices or similar creatures that aspire to knighthood. By using the changeling stalagmite they achieve knighthood!!!

By Nathan (N810) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 07:47 am:

other knight worth considering...

Haakon, Stromgald Scourge <-- !!!
Fallen Askari (cheeap flanker)

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 09:10 am:

Other suggestion worth considering:
reading the first post. (Squeeman already mentioned Haakon, he just couldn't find a Knightly way to get him in the grave.)

Oh right, I'll think about this later. I'm busy with Sadistical Thermodynamics...

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 10:52 am:

Changelings is cheating, sorry.

Haakon could always make it into the graveyard during the discard phase. But with a deck like this, the general hope is that you're playing your cards instead of discarding them.

Cards like Sadistic Glee, Feast of the Unicorn, and other p/t boosters that work flavorfully are also acceptable.

Something I definitely (somehow) forgot to include was, of course, Throne of Bone. Who wants to be standing evilly the whole time that their evil knights of evil are evilly waging evil war when a nice evil chair is available to evilly sit in? Of course, that might not be such an efficient choice. But come on, it's cooler than Demon's Horn!

By Nathan (N810) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 11:01 am:

mmmm Entomb ? mabie not real knighty


ohhh Strangling Soot has a picture of a knight on it !

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 11:38 am:

Entomb is acceptable, since it could work with the flavor of a ritualistic feudal society. Strangling Soot, less (and it's somewhat spell-ish and less action-ish anyway).

By Nathan (N810) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 11:44 am:

[knightly ways to kill Haakon, Stromgald Scourge]

Death Stroke kinda works... (he's got a sword ?)

Devour in Shadow works ...agin no knight in the pic

Disembowel sounds like a black knight, again no knight in the pic

Hero's Demise is prety knightly ...

ohhh Mind Slash works and has a very knighty pic

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 12:50 pm:

If you want more knights of Stromgald, just add 4 Order of the Ebon Hands, they're Cleric Knights now.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 03:06 pm:

It's not about killing Haakon. It's about getting him into your graveyard from anywhere other than play. He can only be played from the graveyard, so Death Stroke and the others are useless for achieving that goal. In fact, if he goes to the graveyard from play, you lose 2 life!

Having a knight in the picture isn't obligatory. It's more a question of something a knight might do or wield. Thus, Death Stroke, flavorfully a combat move, fits. Mind Slash doesn't fit, because flavorfully it seems to be more of a psychic attack. Hero's Demise sounds good, except it depends on someone playing with legendary cards, and is a bit of a dead weight otherwise. In fact, Bad Moon wouldn't be in the initial deck I posted if it weren't the black version of Crusade, which is a very knightly card indeed.

Here's the gist: if it's called Tentacles of Unspeakable Doom and there's a picture on the card of a knight, it doesn't make it into the deck. Because knights don't fight with tentacles, no matter how unspeakable the doom they bring is. Cephalid knights might, but they'd be blue. Otherwise, it's a spell for necromancers (or some other wizardly profession). If it's called Sword of Stabbing People, it works, what with stabbing people with swords being an essential part of the knight's job.

I deliberately left Order of the Ebon Hand out for the same reason that I left paladins out.

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 02:49 am:

Makes sense.

By Nathan (N810) on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 02:09 pm:

how about
Undead Gladiator ?
Skull Fracture !
Mercenary Knight !!

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 04:00 am:

Skull Fracture works. Undead gladiator doesn't have the creature type "knight." And mercenary knight...

Let's just say that I cringe every time I see a card that says "summon creature." Creature - [creature type], yes. Summon [creature type], hey, even better. But "summon creature" feels a bit odd, like what happened to all the legendary creatures when legendary was made a supertype instead of a subtype. Does anyone else get that?

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 04:59 am:

They're now all fixed.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 08:25 am:

Erm. why no Order of the Ebon Hand? Certainly more in-flavour (feudalistic/medieval) than Dauthis. You said you didn't use them for the same reasons why you don't use paladins but you didn't explain that either.

You should add Serrated Arrows because it's a weapon knights could use AND it's one of the few black ways to "teach those pesky knights of white a lesson"!

Speaking of that, why don't you use equipment cards instead of Unholy Strengths and Bad Moons? From Lighting Greveases to Sword of Light and Shadow (which gives proto:white!) you'll have lots of reuseable usefull pumpers that fit the theme perfectly because most of them represent weapons of sorts that knights would use!

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 08:34 am:

The reason being that the original printings don't include the knight creature type. Therefore, in my heart of hearts, paladins are paladins, and Order of the Ebon Hands are clerics.

Outside of that, I accept all your points.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 08:39 am:

That means you could add Eastern and Western Paladin because their creature type is "Knight". One of each would be enough. Now we should search for a "knightly" way to tutor for specific creatures (toolbox principle). Is there a tutor card with "Keira" in the flavour text?

(first one to make a Keira Knightley joke in this thread, I demand my style- fusk- or whatever-points!)

By Nathan (N810) on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 09:05 am:

yess its been etatad

Mercenary Knight

Card type: Creature

Creature type: Human Mercenary Knight

Power/Toughness:4/4

Casting cost: 2B

When Mercenary Knight comes into play, sacrifice it unless you discard a creature card.

By Nathan (N810) on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 03:06 pm:

seem like a perfectly good Black Knight to me ?

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 04:58 am:

Oh, it'd be perfect. Like I said, though, my eyes try to jump out of their cozy sockets and burrow deep underground when they read "Summon Creature." It was originally printed without a creature type, and all printed versions of it say "Summon Creature" instead of "Creature- Human Mercenary Knight."

It's my own bias that's keeping that one out.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 07:38 am:

Even Alpha Black Knights do say "Summon Knight" and not "Summon Creature" ;)

I wanted to suggest Knights of Dusk which would round out your mana curve and can deal with problem creatures and Stromgald Cabal, which is actullay a "Summon Knight" and is able to counter white spells.

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 08:27 am:

Dude, you need Scythe of the Wretched for your Order of The Ineffable!

And Bonesplitter for a 5th edition Black Knight.
Sword of Light and Shadow for Shadow Rider.
Vulshok Battlegear for Knight of Stromgald
For Dauthi Mercenary... Hell, Nightmare Lash?

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 02:56 pm:

Black Knight is definitely in! After all, I said that as a basic requirement the deck had to have four!

What I was banishing was Mercenary Knight.

Ashnod's Armor also looks a lot like the Knight of Stromgald's deco.