By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 08:03 am:

I'm bored, so answer this: who would win the three way war? Phyrexia (Magic), the Borg (Star Trek), or the Daleks (Doctor Who).

Feel free to add more to the list. The condition for doing so is that any addition must be a sci-fi/fantasy "evil machine race."

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 08:06 am:

Evil machine race or "evil formerly-organic-but-added-machine/mechanical-implants/parts-until-becoming-beings-of-unrelenting-horror race."

By Berend (Squirlemaster) on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 08:39 am:

Daleks are mutants in sort off miniature tanks. I think Cybermen are more in-theme.

Phyrexians w. backing from the big Y > Dalek > Phyrexian > Cybermen > Borg

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:59 am:

Either the borg would assimilate phyrexians, or phyrexians would merge with borgs. The moment one of these things happens they will both be the same thing.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:06 am:

I don't know about that. The Phyrexians and Borg are structured very differently. Each Borg is a drone, and only the Queen controls them all. Whereas the Phyrexians have a hierarchy with different ranks and different roles. The two structures are incompatible, and it would either lead to their brains exploding, or civil war.

On the other hand, I could be wrong, and that would be cool. Trench Wurms piloting polygons through space?

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:07 am:

Isn't that a bit unfair? Borg are from a futuristic setting with advanced technology while the phyrexian basically work on steampunk tech.

Also, the question would be: Are Borg able to assimilate something that is only 20% organic? 10%? And if so, what would happen to their collective consciousness, would it become a computer program?

I'll add terminators to the mix.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:42 am:

Have you seen some of the Invasion/Urza's card arts? I think Phyrexians qualify as science fiction. Some are steampunk, but many are much more swooshy than the stiff Borg. Plus, the Phyrexians use advanced biological warfare (and viruses, which the Borg can have problems with), can build worlds from scratch (and flowstone), and have some of the best teleportation technology.

Not that I'm saying the Phyrexians are automatically winners, but that counting them out on the basis of technology is premature. I think they're firmly in the competition.

Terminators are a good addition.

The one thing that Phyrexians don't have that all the other sides have is time travel technology (which is mostly impossible in Magic, not counting Unhinged, because only silver can travel through time without being destroyed).

By Evincar (Nightmare) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 05:53 am:

Necrons from Warhammer would also be a very good addition. I certainly couldn't answer this question though.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 06:34 am:

Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about the necrons. I hope their evil is not comparable to neocons.

I think Squirlemaster is mostly spot on. Yawgmoth is the single most powerful entity of all, what with being a sentient expanding cloud of death-causing nanites who instantly decays all organic material he touches, resurrects the dead as zombies, and turns stone and clay into golems. On the other hand, the Daleks, Borg, and terminators might have the technology (if not the imagination) to construct something along the lines of the Legacy Weapon which would be needed to defeat Yawgmoth.

Without Jaegermoff:

1) Infantry:

As troopers go, Phyrexians and Daleks are the most powerful. There are some huge Phyrexians that would be unaffected (or not highly affected) by most Borg or Dalek ray-weapons. Whereas Dalek ray guns outmatch the Borg capabilities, and the Daleks can fly. So in any infantry matchup, the Daleks would be able to destroy massive numbers of Borg before the Borg have the chance to become immune to their attacks. Whereas both Borg and Dalek shielding would not make them immune to a Devouring Strossus or a Phyrexian Dreadnought or Colossus that is tearing up the field. However, the Phyrexians have no shielding protection from ray-weapons of either kind.

The winners? Daleks or Phyrexians. In infantry mode, the Borg don't stand a chance against either. Ultimately, it probably goes to Phyrexians.

2) Time travel:

Time travel makes the whole thing problematic, because technically either the Borg or the Daleks or the Terminators can go back in time to change earlier events. I think the Daleks can, anyway, but Doctor Who continuity is confusing what with infinite time paradoxes and anomalies. Plus, the whole thing gets weird if all three factions engage in escalation of past alterations. Someone else screwed up the timeline? Jump back even further and screw it up before they can get to it!

However, if all three were to jump back to the same time and try to mess with events, then it's an interesting fight. I give it to the Terminators.

The winners? Terminators, or possibly Daleks. Still not sure about Dalek time travel, but the Borg never make creative use of time travel. The question is whether a single Terminator agent is better equipped to change the past, or a fleet of Daleks.

However, if time travel is ignored, then we can also ignore Phyrexian magic users, because magic is problematic.

3) Technology:

In terms of technology, the Phyrexians lose to the Terminators, simply because Phyrexian technology is generally geared to annihilating organic life. The best tech goes either to the Daleks or the Borg, though. The Borg have assimilated all the technology they'll ever need, with the most advanced shielding (and can upgrade every time they assimilate a new being), while the Daleks have more or less the most advanced technology when starting from square 1.

However, the Daleks and Borg are both partially organic (the Daleks actually being mutants in tanks, like Squirlemaster said), which makes them susceptible to Phyrexian biological warfare. homogeneity and rapid information transfer has cost the Borg more than one battle. The Borg, therefore, are the most vulnerable, because either the Daleks or the Terminators could come up with a computer virus.

Phyrexians also have world-building technology, and teleportation (well, planeswalking) technology. Surely, this is a big advantage. The Borg have to rely on warp technology.

Winners? Daleks or Terminators. Probably Daleks, because of their advanced spaceships. But only the Terminators are immune to biological warfare. So if the Phyrexians manage to infect the Daleks or Borg, and it comes down to infantry battle, then the Phyrexians win.

That's all I can think of for now. Any arguments?

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 06:50 am:

Hang on, I just realized something. Are we assuming that some unwitting human/alien/fantasy population is caught in the middle of the struggle (like in Alien vs Predator, Freddy vs Jason, and other similar matchups)? Or is that variable too chaotic?

Apparently, the comic book sequel to Freddy vs Jason is Freddy vs Jason vs Ash. Ash as in the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness guy.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 07:08 am:

I suppose it would also be too chaotic to have the Doctor and Sarah Connor piloting the SkarDISship Enterlight (or Weatherprise) through the whole thing. External variables may be a bad idea.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 07:16 am:

I think adding other parties is way too chaotic but similarily we would have to ask the question "where will this battle take place?" and that mostly refers to "worlds". The Borg trying to invade Phyrexia would obviously be entirely different from the phyrexians trying to invade the Borg territory (I don't know if that is even possible since they don't have spaceships).

But right now I am asking myself two other questions:
1) Everybod is bored to death at times but Squeeman seems to suffer from this problem way more often than any other person I know - how bored can one posibly be?
2) What would Squeeman do if these boards would go the way of the dod without any substitute board one day?

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 07:21 am:

Probably replay my Final Fantasy games. Then go out for a tasty sandwich.

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:15 pm:

As long as there are tasty sandwhiches, the world may yet hope for salvation.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:59 pm:

Phyrexians with Yawgy > Borg > Phyrexians > Dalek

Dalek come in last because I honestly can't think of a more pathetic show than Doctor Who. Anything associated it gets sucked into a black hole of suck.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 02:21 am:

What series? The 1960s-80s episodes or the new series?

I think it's hilarious. All the concepts belong in science fiction B movies of the 1950s. But the BBC has kept churning out new episodes for 45 years anyway. It's like updating the unupdatable.

By Lord Priest (Xdritex) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 03:22 am:

I have a possible new contender to throw things thought so far a bit wonky: The Replicators(from Stargate series).

They seek better higher tech to continually be better than everything else; they replicate by making their enemies objects their actual resources(they can use any non-organic(possibly even organic) substance to create new replicators); they're like cockroaches, and continually stick around and go everywhere.

By Nathan (N810) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 09:47 am:

Replacator will use any source of meteal for replecation (their only goal). They are imune to energy weapons.
Gunpowder weapons blow the into pieces, but then they re-assemble themselves.

they can also form themselves into ships and human form replacators.

By Nathan (N810) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 09:50 am:

Replacator will use any source of meteal for replecation (their only goal). They are immune to energy weapons.
Gunpowder weapons blow the into pieces, but then they re-assemble themselves.
They can also form themselves into ships capable of faster than light speeds and
human form replacators (that can read you mind directy with nanobots).
also replacators ahve a hive mind like the borg.

By Homelands Bookie (Psycho) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 10:13 am:

You know, there is an editfunction around here somewhere.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 10:54 am:

For mods, yes. Try to edit your post ...

By Nathan (N810) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 10:57 am:

oops...
(not a mod)

By Sam KoMN (A1withnoname) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:45 pm:

I've only seen some episodes of Doctor Who from the 70s. They were awesome in an utterly ridiculous sort of way.

I'm pretty sure Phyrexia could beat all of them if the Ineffable just death-clouded whatever they happened to be fighting. Certainly, it would be impossible for any of them to invade Phyrexia itself. If they did, their group consciousness would almost certainly be absorbed into the greater whole.

By Nathan (N810) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:33 pm:

Replacators vs Daleks
replacators overcome one of them and use him as a puppet to destroy the rest...

Replacators vs Borg
Replacators encounter borg, borg do what borg do and try to assimilate... no bologicals on board,
replacators make more of themselves out of borg and take the borg ship inprove on it and kill more borg.

Replacators vs Phyrexians
Replacators land and convert a few until
he WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED opens the "Gate to Phyrexia" and destroys all the artifacts "Replacators"

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:46 pm:

---

Quote:

I've only seen some episodes of Doctor Who from the 70s. They were awesome in an utterly ridiculous sort of way.

---

By Nathan (N810) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 02:23 pm:

(Douglas Adams was one of the show's writers for a few years)
actualy that explains a lot :P

good news squeeman it is now posible to see all satgate sg-1 episodes since they finaly stoped making them afer 10 seasons

but stargate atlantis is still showing new episodes.

you might want to check out the new docter who seies as well. (same capy ideas, better special effects)

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 02:50 pm:

Yeah, I'm following the new Doctor Who series. The season/cliffhanger finale is on Saturday.

There are some decent psychological thriller episodes.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 04:17 pm:

Meh. Douglas Adams did a great job on the Hitchhiker books until So Long and Thanks for All the Fish. Who the hell honestly cares about Fenchurch? The first two were genius, granted.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 04:29 pm:

It was only a matter of time...

So Long and Thanks for All the Fish was pretty boring. The story's punchline, God's Final Message, was great but was the only payoff for too many pages of Arthur Dent's love life.

By Lord Priest (Xdritex) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 08:20 pm:

The middle few books were definitely a bit bleh. I did quite enjoy the fifth one comparatively though. Particularly the ending.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 09:12 pm:

Exactly. The romantic scenes were well-written and all, but why the hell did they exist in a Hitchhiker book? We don't need character progression, we need more wonderful ridiculousness. Mostly Harmless was a step back in the right direction, but still fell short of the first three.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 03:50 am:

I just saw the movie recently and thought it was quite good. I mean, for book adaption. A book that was deemed "unfilmable". Then again, the books are basing on a radio show which I haven't heard yet. The movie had quite a few changes compared to the book, but it surprised me that the movie contained EVERY scene and detail that I remembered from reading the first book. I haven't read it for about 15 years. That means they managed to identify the most memorably moments. I also loved the fact that they never explained the towel things throughout the movie.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 06:50 am:

They could have done it without the chick flick ending and that weird gun sidequest. It did do decently for laughs, though.

Then again, Douglas Adams was the main writer of the script before he died. So who knows how much of that was his idea, and how much was added in after his death.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 06:57 am:

Hang on. Phyrexian sleeper agents. Are we assuming the the Phyrexian-Borg-Dalek-Terminator-Cybermen-Necron-Replicator war has already started?

Then again, sleeper agents probably wouldn't work against the Borg (unless they act harmless before sabotage). Terminators could also use similar plans. But planting spies once the conflict has already begun would probably be more difficult.

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 07:22 am:

I wonder if the borg/darek/replicators/phyrexians would be able to replicate/assimilate/absorb/whatever a T-1000 ...

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 08:16 am:

Probably. But just try destroying one first! Especially if it's all out war, and they don't have to deal with just one but millions.

But the terminator robots have a tendency to improve their own designs as well.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 05:09 pm:

I think a sleeper agent that was assimilated by the Borg would probably just be useless. Something tells me that if the Borg programming tried to overwrite Yawgy's programming, it would probably just kill the sleeper agent.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 06:40 am:

Well, Phyrexians and terminator robots (I can't speak for necrons and replicators) both tend to use spies and infiltration techniques. Meanwhile, the Borg are notorious for not paying attention to intruders in their cubes and spheres unless the intruders make an overt sign of posing a threat. On the other hand, I guess it's moderately fair to make planeswalking and other forms of non-Star Trek teleportation be roughly analogous to Star Trek transport beams. Which means no teleporting/planeswalking/hyperspace-jumping/whatever into Borg ships while the shields are up.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 06:35 am:

Right, so the edge would go to Phyrexia as far as infiltration, but actually assimilating a sleeper agent wouldn't really benefit either side IMHO.

And if we're saying "planeswalking = beam-me-up-Scotty" then that would also mean that Yawgy would probably be able to keep the Borg from beaming down to Phyrexia. That would mean they would have to land on the surface, which would pose more problems.

Questions: Do Borg breathe? I don't think Phyrexia's hellish environment would pose that big a risk for them as long as they don't have to breathe (which they probably don't, but I'm not sure).

Anyway, if the Borg land on Phyrexia directly then I would probably give the advantage to the Borg, at least for the first four spheres. After that, Yawgy's going to take notice and they're pretty much hosed.

This really is the stupidest and most wonderful discussion alive.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 02:12 pm:

Well, it's hard to say. Borg are mostly homogenous. Borg troopers vs generic Phyrexian troopers, I give it to the Borg. But then there are the big honkin' Phyrexians like Dreadnoughts, mak fawa, demons, and so on. To a certain extent, Borg energy weapons will give them an advantage. But while individual Borg are shielded against energy weapons (or soon become so after adapting), there's nothing stopping huge Phyrexians from tearing massive swathes through the space invaders.

Of course, almost all of the aforementioned sides gain exponential advantages with the deaths of their enemies because they harvest them for resources. Phyrexian and Borg armies swell with each battle they win. Even Daleks can clone new Daleks from individual cells and replace their dead. Only the terminator robots don't do this, as far as I know.

Here's another question: how much effect would nanotechnology have in this?

This is really just another variant of pirate vs ninjas, tigers vs bears, Star Trek vs Star Wars, LotR vs Star Wars, Elvis vs Cthulhu, whatever.

Cthulhu wins in every scenario. Zombie Elvis reanimated by the Voodoo God of Funk may be a different question.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 08:23 pm:

I agree. In a ranged attack, the Borg are going to destroy the Phyrexians. Up close and personal it would have to be a different story, though.

After the war has gone on long enough, I suppose it would be harder and harder to tell the difference between the Borg and the Phyrexians because of the constant harvesting of the dead. Both sides would end up practically identical except for the mind leading them, so it would come down to the intelligence, military prowess, and adaptability of the Borg queen and the Ineffable. In which case I'd go with Yawgy.

Nanotechnology is iffy. I don't remember the Borgs using it, while Phyrexia has very advanced nanos. But I would think the Borg would be more than adequately protected from a nanovirus invasion.

But, yes, Cthulhu still wins. Maybe not against Yawgy, though. It'd be kind of hard to drive Yawgmoth insane to the point of death seeing as how he's already insane and he's pretty much already dead.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 03:49 pm:

Well, the Borg DO have those metal things that grow out of people's cheeks and then control them. And wasn't there some kind of condition, where if even the tiniest particle of a dead Borg remains, it's still dangerous? Does that count as nanotechnology?

In a battle between Borg cheek-control and Phyrexian spinal control, I actually give it to the Borg. I think that having Borg micro- or nanotechnology spreading to every part of the body is probably going to win out against just spinal control. That, or they cancel each other out. On the other hand, those Borg control technologies might not actually work on Phyrexians. And they'd definitely not work on Terminators, since they probably require at least some biology.

Either way, I think I remember that the Borg were frequently defeated by something or other that attacked their homogeneity (until they build up an immunity). That's in Phyrexia's favor, what with engineered plagues and so on.

I always wondered, though... The Borg were tougher than any humanoid in physical combat (except Worf, but that exception never really counts). But their personal shields only blocked energy weapons like phasers, disrupters, etc. So what would good old fashioned bullets do to them?

As for Daleks and Cybermen, I think it was established in the new Doctor Who series that Daleks are far more dangerous than (alternate reality) Cybermen. I don't know if they ever met before, but then that show has more continuity to remember than ever Star Trek. Cybermen are more or less on par with Terminators, but with less variability and therefore weaker. Daleks could probably take the Terminators easily, especially with their insta-kill ray weapons. Each Dalek weapon is a match for any standard Phyrexian/Cyberman/Terminator/whatever infantry troopers, though not the bigger stuff. They'd also be able to destroy thousands or millions of Borg before the Borg assimilate the technology. By that time, it might be too late for the Borg to win (while the Daleks are generally smarter than humans, and therefore would probably figure out anything that the Enterprise or Voyager figured out).

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 04:22 pm:

I think phyrexians beat borgs thoroughly on the whole shielding area! Borgs adapt their shields according to the most frequently used type of attack. Phyrexian attachs does not tend to be very simmilare!

Anyways, the whole discussion is useless if any of these "races" are not equipped with their entire arsenal.

That means magic has to get involved and also timetravelling!

In account it must also be taken which of these races have been defeated by lowly equipped humanoids, and in what areas these battles were won, because these areas will be obvious weaknesses!

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 10:19 pm:

Actually, all Phyrexian ray cannons operate on the same "frequency"--meaning, they all use black mana. Once the Borg figure out how to defend against that, it's pretty much over.

I don't know enough about how the Borg take over an individual, but I would think it would work on controlling the brain and the nervous system. But the tingler only pushes the spine out of the host, kills the host, and then animates the host's body. I would think that would be pretty ineffective against the Borg, but I also think that the Borg method of control would be equally ineffective against the Phyrexians.

I'm still going with Borg beats Phyrexia, but Phyrexia + Yawgy beats Borg.

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 02:55 pm:

EIDTELNVIL: I must admit I do not know so much about phyrexian ray cannons, but I guess they use black mana as an energy source that creates various effects. The effects themselves should have various energysignatures (If some of it is even energy) I remember some episodes in star trek where they just took their fasers and modified the energy frequency to beat the borg. Of course the trekies would eventually run out of frequencies, but it was done by using the same powersource, and so phyrexians would be able to do the same.

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 04:34 pm:

But how exactly could you change the wavelength (not frequency) that black mana operates on? Does it even operate on wavelengths? I would think that black mana is black mana. You can use more or less of it, but it's still going to be black mana. I don't think it would be that hard for the Borg to find an immunity to it.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 12:10 am:

Well, the beauty of Treknobabble is that it doesn't make any sense, but it still apparently constitutes a solution. After the original series, all that was needed to defeat an enemy was a string of dialogue using mostly nonsense words. Then, Picard/Sisko/Janeway would say "do it," a beam would fire off, and the Federation wins again!

By Puschkin (Puschkin) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 04:45 am:

This is the geekiest and most nerdish thread I have ever read

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 07:13 am:

Yes, but in a three way fight with you, Sauron, and Santa Claus, who would win?

---

Quote:

Anyways, the whole discussion is useless if any of these "races" are not equipped with their entire arsenal.

That means magic has to get involved and also timetravelling!

---

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 03:05 pm:

EIDTELNVIL: Black mana is a powersource that enable phyrexians to twist different things into being. A grizzlybear enchanted with unholy strength does not become black, despite the fact that it has been touched by black energy transforming it to a higher level. Look at black mana as a sort of magical version of nanites that changes the physical reality, but does not remain in that changed reality. Black mana may create stuff, but the stuff it creates is not necessary black.
-------------------------------------------------
SQUEEMAN: I have always felt that most fictionary races never become fully described when it comes to gigantic worlds! Considering both borg and phyrexians are intra-dimensional (Well borgs travel in space, phyrexia in dimensions) They should both have encountered a wast variety of different beings. Both borg and phyrexians are likelly to enslave most cultures they meet, but would borg assimilate anything non-culture like phyrexians would? Also in some episodes the borgs choice of victims have lead to failure in the hive. (In one episode trekies gain a borg prisoner and teaches him individuality. Then returns him to the hive, with disastrous results within the hive. Phyrexian sleeperagents are likelly to create the same kind of scenario, meaning that they can beat the borg by trickery! Borgs are not very adaptable when it comes to anything except their energy immunity!

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 03:53 pm:

Well, the terminators largely use enegy weapons (or death rays, to be scientific). So they're ineffective against the Borg. At least, I vaguely remember this from an arcade game. I've never seen the first movie.

While Phyrexians use energy weapons, they prefer disease. And disease is another thing that the Borg can gain immunity to. Yes, there is definitely a time lag between a Borg's defeat and the rest of them gaining immunity. But even with a thousand separate engineered diseases, the Phyrexians will only take out a few million or billion Borg. The real question is: how much does this count?

By Sam KoMN (A1withnoname) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 08:31 pm:

Well, it might count if the phyrexians can take those billion Borg and reprocess them. Bodies are raw materials to them, after all, and I'm sure they would be able to do some fun stuff from Borg parts.

In any fight, the Phyrexian strategy would probably be to pick out the strongest of the opponents, then take over those opponents and pit the new creations against the others.

Plus, how does a Borg learn to defend against a Witch Engine?

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:14 pm:

Ooh, or what about the neo-whatever-they-were. The transparent things in Planshift. I really don't know how a Borg ship could cope with something that they couldn't touch or shoot. They existed just as creatures of the mind, which could do a lot of damage against the queen but no damage against a typical Borg ship.

Really, though, let's keep in mind that the Borg queen was killed by a bald man and Yawgy had to be stopped by a deus ex machina the size of Detroit.

By Lord Priest (Xdritex) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 05:13 am:

WD, what you're misunderstanding, is that the Phyrexians can, and do use raw, absolute pure black mana as a weapon itself.

I think it's an interesting point that Phyrexians seek out artifice, and are masters of either incorporating it, or destroying it. For being black based(with most black spells never working against artifacts), they sure do have a massive ability to destroy artifacts.

Which leads me to think that the Phyrexians will winn over the rest. They are experts on bio-engineering diseases, as well as engineering methods of eliminating artifice(machine) competition. And you all keep stating that the Phyrexians + The Ineffable beat everyone; but how could you ever work the Phyrexians fighting in this war without the Ineffable...he simply is a given as part of the Phyrexian force.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 06:39 am:

Well, you could place Yawgmoth as "chief strategist" for Phyrexia, and not have him use death cloud mode or I-can-mindzap-anyone-in-Phyrexia-when-I'm-awake. We could say that Yawgmoth is awake and handling the planning and strategizing, but Gix is in charge, and Croag, Abcal-Dro, Kirril, etc are handling things.

Any psychic weapon that could destroy the link between Borg would be devastating.

While Phyrexians are adept at destroying "inferior" artifice, they might not consider Borg/replicator/Skynet (I finally remembered the name of the Terminator side, which had been bugging me for a while) to be inferior.

Hell, they might even steal the time travel designs if they can get their hands/claws/insect parts on them.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 06:40 am:

By Nathan (N810) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 07:45 am:

but Phyrexians do have an anti-artifact spell
"Gate to Phyrexia"
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Gate+to+Phyrexia
Typical of phyrexian tools it requires sacrifice of creatures... this just requires seting up some breeding pits to power the gate.

and if phyrexians ever got hold of some red mana there is allways "Shatter Storm"

By Ineffable's Son (Eidtelnvil) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 03:17 pm:

Squeeman just isn't going to quit until we admit how cool the Terminators are.

By Squeeman (Squeeman) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 05:08 pm:

Really? They were Puschkin's addition. And because I know nothing about replicators and necrons, I can't really say anything about them, while I've at least seen T2 and T3. I just came across that picture while trustingly searching for reliable, genuine, authoritative information on wikipedia. I suppose the governor of California might have something to say about this matchup.

And if I was going for the coolest team, I would just have voted for myself.

As for Gate to Phyrexia, that's flavored as a portal that requires the sacrifice of an artifact to open- not some obscure way of destroying artifacts. The card's actual ability makes it confusing. By sacrificing an artifact, a creature can enter another world (i.e. disappearing from its current location). But other Antiquities cards, such as Yawgmoth Demon, Priest of Yawgmoth, and Phyrexian Gremlins, all have flavor that related to smashing artifacts. So it was a relevant point.

Also, Ritual of the Machine. Although the Alliances card is about the Soldevi Adnates, their worship would aid the revival of ancient Phyrexian war machines that would return to terrorize Dominaria.

By Lord Priest (Xdritex) on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 08:10 pm:

Sure, they would take and make use of anything they themselves could use to further their own ends. But beyond that, they'd wide out what wasn't useful. And as it's all types of artifice, they'd still have the advantage of specializing in being able to specifically destroy artifice.

By Nathan (N810) on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 01:43 pm:

here's a nice link to...

Replicators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicator_(Stargate)
and
Necrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrons(warhammer 40,000)

By Wicked Darkman (Wickeddarkman) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 03:35 pm:

Replicators beat the necrons.

Replicators and necrons regenerate.
Replicators are immune to energy = necron weaponry!
Replicators can copy necron equipment!
Replicators defence acid disolves necron metal!

The battle will be long, because of the necron teleportation, so replicators has to enter the necron homeworld/bases to kill the necron spyders
that regenerate and teleport the necron!

First step in victory will be gaining necron weaponry and copying it!